Congress asks for evidence on Wal-Mart lobbying

NEW DELHI: Criticising the BJP for disrupting the House to score "brownie points", union minister Manish Tewari said on Tuesday that the party should make public any evidence it has on Wal-Mart lobbying in the US to open the way for foreign equity in retail trade in India.

"If the BJP (Bharatiya Janata Party) or anybody else has any evidence it should have been made public. Those allegations should have been verified," the information and broadcasting minister told reporters.

Tewari was reacting to the report that Wal-Mart had spent Rs 125 crore on lobbying activities in the US, including on issues related to enhanced market access for investment in India. The issue saw the BJP stalling proceedings in both houses of parliament Tuesday.

"Merely because a report gets published somewhere and it serves your political purpose, it ducktales into your larger agenda because you've lost the FDI vote in both the Houses that does not mean that you translate conjuncture into innuendo and extrapolate innuendo into allegations," he said.

"The BJP has developed a very strange operational methodology, first you make an allegation, then you reiterate the allegation and then you start believing in your own allegation. Before an allegation is made, the facts and circumstances should be verified in their entirety," he added.

He said stalling parliament was not in the interest of the country. "This is what the BJP has been doing in the last three years."

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Smokers celebrate as Wash. legalizes marijuana


SEATTLE (AP) — The crowds of happy people lighting joints under Seattle's Space Needle early Thursday morning with nary a police officer in sight bespoke the new reality: Marijuana is legal under Washington state law.


Hundreds gathered at Seattle Center for a New Year's Eve-style countdown to 12 a.m., when the legalization measure passed by voters last month took effect. When the clock struck, they cheered and sparked up in unison.


A few dozen people gathered on a sidewalk outside the north Seattle headquarters of the annual Hempfest celebration and did the same, offering joints to reporters and blowing smoke into television news cameras.


"I feel like a kid in a candy store!" shouted Hempfest volunteer Darby Hageman. "It's all becoming real now!"


Washington and Colorado became the first states to vote to decriminalize and regulate the possession of an ounce or less of marijuana by adults over 21. Both measures call for setting up state licensing schemes for pot growers, processors and retail stores. Colorado's law is set to take effect by Jan. 5.


Technically, Washington's new marijuana law still forbids smoking pot in public, which remains punishable by a fine, like drinking in public. But pot fans wanted a party, and Seattle police weren't about to write them any tickets.


In another sweeping change for Washington, Gov. Chris Gregoire on Wednesday signed into law a measure that legalizes same-sex marriage. The state joins several others that allow gay and lesbian couples to wed.


The mood was festive in Seattle as dozens of gay and lesbian couples got in line to pick up marriage licenses at the King County auditor's office early Thursday.


King County and Thurston County announced they would open their auditors' offices shortly after midnight Wednesday to accommodate those who wanted to be among the first to get their licenses.


Kelly Middleton and her partner Amanda Dollente got in line at 4 p.m. Wednesday.


Hours later, as the line grew, volunteers distributed roses and a group of men and women serenaded the waiting line to the tune of "Chapel of Love."


Because the state has a three-day waiting period, the earliest that weddings can take place is Sunday.


In dealing with marijuana, the Seattle Police Department told its 1,300 officers on Wednesday, just before legalization took hold, that until further notice they shall not issue citations for public marijuana use.


Officers will be advising people not to smoke in public, police spokesman Jonah Spangenthal-Lee wrote on the SPD Blotter. "The police department believes that, under state law, you may responsibly get baked, order some pizzas and enjoy a 'Lord of the Rings' marathon in the privacy of your own home, if you want to."


He offered a catchy new directive referring to the film "The Big Lebowski," popular with many marijuana fans: "The Dude abides, and says 'take it inside!'"


"This is a big day because all our lives we've been living under the iron curtain of prohibition," said Hempfest director Vivian McPeak. "The whole world sees that prohibition just took a body blow."


Washington's new law decriminalizes possession of up to an ounce for those over 21, but for now selling marijuana remains illegal. I-502 gives the state a year to come up with a system of state-licensed growers, processors and retail stores, with the marijuana taxed 25 percent at each stage. Analysts have estimated that a legal pot market could bring Washington hundreds of millions of dollars a year in new tax revenue for schools, health care and basic government functions.


But marijuana remains illegal under federal law. That means federal agents can still arrest people for it, and it's banned from federal properties, including military bases and national parks.


The Justice Department has not said whether it will sue to try to block the regulatory schemes in Washington and Colorado from taking effect.


"The department's responsibility to enforce the Controlled Substances Act remains unchanged," said a statement issued Wednesday by the Seattle U.S. attorney's office. "Neither states nor the executive branch can nullify a statute passed by Congress."


The legal question is whether the establishment of a regulated marijuana market would "frustrate the purpose" of the federal pot prohibition, and many constitutional law scholars say it very likely would.


That leaves the political question of whether the administration wants to try to block the regulatory system, even though it would remain legal to possess up to an ounce of marijuana.


Alison Holcomb is the drug policy director of the American Civil Liberties Union of Washington and served as the campaign manager for New Approach Washington, which led the legalization drive. She said the voters clearly showed they're done with marijuana prohibition.


"New Approach Washington sponsors and the ACLU look forward to working with state and federal officials and to ensure the law is fully and fairly implemented," she said.


___


Johnson can be reached at https://twitter.com/GeneAPseattle


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Fiscal Cliff Talks: Boehner, Obama Meet Face-to-Face













For the first time in more than three weeks, President Obama and House Speaker John Boehner met face-to-face today at the White House to talk about avoiding the fiscal cliff.


White House Principal Deputy Press Secretary Josh Earnest would offer no details saying only, "The lines of communication remain open."


Erskine Bowles, the co-creator of a debt reducing plan, who was pessimistic a couple weeks ago, said he likes what he's hearing.


"Any time you have two guys in there tangoing, you have a chance to get it done," Bowles said on CBS's "Face the Nation."


The White House afternoon talks, conducted without cameras or any announcement until they were over, came as some Republicans were showing more flexibility about approving higher tax rates for the wealthy, one of the president's demands to keep the country from the so-called fiscal cliff -- a mixture of across-the-board tax increases and spending cuts that many economists say would send the country back into recession.






Carolyn Kaster/AP Photo; Pablo Martinez Monsivais/AP Photo















Fiscal Cliff Battle: President Obama vs. Speaker John Boehner Watch Video





"Let's face it. He does have the upper hand on taxes. You have to pass something to keep it from happening," Sen. Bob Corker of Tennessee said on "FOX News Sunday."


This comes after the White House moderated one of its demands about tax rate increases for the wealthy.


The administration was demanding the rate return to its former level of 39.6 percent on income above $250,000. The so-called Bush tax cut set that rate at 35 percent. But Friday, Vice President Joe Biden signaled that rate could be negotiable, somewhere between the two.


"So will I accept a tax increase as a part of a deal to actually solve our problems? Yes," said Oklahoma Republican Tom Coburn on ABC's "This Week."


The problems the senator was referring to are the country's entitlement programs. And there was some progress on that front, too.


A leading Democrat said means testing for Medicare recipients could be a way to cut costs to the government health insurance program. Those who make more money would be required to pay more for Medicare.


"I do believe there should be means testing, and those of us with higher income and retirement should pay more. That could be part of the solution," Sen. Dick Durbin of Illinois said on NBC's "Meet the Press."


But Durbin said he would not favor raising the eligibility age from 65 years old to 67 years old, as many Republicans have suggested.


The White House and the speaker's office released the exact same statement about the negotiating session. Some will see that as a sign of progress, that neither side is talking about what was said behind closed doors.



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Analysis: Franco-German chill reshuffles cards in Europe


PARIS (Reuters) - A chill has settled over the Rhine seven months after the election of Socialist French President Francois Hollande, reshuffling the cards in Europe's perpetual power game.


The cooling of traditionally close Franco-German relations was partly an intentional step by Hollande to demonstrate that he is not in conservative Chancellor Angela Merkel's pocket but wants to change the policy direction of the European Union.


It also reflects a fraught process of rebalancing power to accommodate Germany's greater political heft and economic clout.


Despite vows of ever closer cooperation that are sure to mark the 50th anniversary next month of the treaty that sealed post-war Franco-German reconciliation, tension is likely to simmer at least until next September's German general election.


Hollande was keen to distance himself from his conservative predecessor Nicolas Sarkozy's exclusive alliance with the German leader, which became known as "Merkozy" because of the dominant role they played in steering the euro zone debt crisis.


Hollande and Merkel have differed publicly over the right mix between austerity and growth policies, the future of the euro area, a European banking union, and industrial policy.


A series of disputes over common euro zone bonds, the EU budget and the aerospace industry have exposed mutual distrust between German and French officials and business leaders, despite entrenched habits of cooperation.


"It's not an easy dialogue," said Bruno Le Roux, parliamentary floor leader of Hollande's Socialist Party. "It was on the wrong track for the last couple of years and the fact that France was in an electoral cycle for a year and now Germany is in an electoral cycle for a year doesn't help."


Le Roux, who is close to Hollande, said the president had set out to broaden the debate about changing the euro zone's course by including countries such as Italy and Spain that are closer to his approach of "integration with solidarity."


That had led Merkel to build bridges with non-euro Britain on issues such as the EU budget, at France's expense.


Whereas France and Germany cut a deal to preserve the level of agricultural subsidies - of which the French are the chief beneficiaries - in the last long-term EU budget, Berlin cold-shouldered approaches by Paris for a similar pact this time.


In last month's aborted negotiations on the 2014-20 budget, Merkel endorsed lower farm spending despite French pleas and backed British pressure for deeper cuts in total EU expenditure.


The chancellor has expressed public concern about the loss of competitiveness of Europe's second largest economy. Her Finance Minister Wolfgang Schaeuble last month asked a panel of economic advisers to consider reform proposals for France.


In private, senior German officials worry about Hollande's ability to secure support in his Socialist party for the bold shake-up of labor markets, welfare financing and public spending that experts say France needs after the anti-business rhetoric of his election campaign.


Berlin has watched aghast the national drama in France over efforts to save 630 jobs at steelmaker ArcelorMittal, featuring threats to nationalize an ageing steelworks shuttered due to chronic overcapacity in the sector.


In German eyes, the furor over Mittal's Florange plant epitomizes a lack of economic realism and a statist intervention reflex that run counter to Germany's business culture.


Berlin policymakers recognize that Hollande is making a gradual turn towards economic reform, but they have still to be convinced of his determination to stay the course if left-wing and trade union resistance mounts.


Franco-German tensions over power-sharing, industrial policy and the role of the state came to a head in the struggle over European aerospace leader EADS.


Berlin prevented a merger between the Airbus parent and Britain's BAE Systems last month, fearing Germany would be overruled by Franco-British defense interests. The Germans then demanded an equal shareholding with Paris' in EADS.


The result was a shake-up of the European planemaker in which the Berlin government paid more than $2 billion to buy a stake matching France's, only to see the role of state shareholders greatly reduced by new governance arrangements.


The Germans were "obsessed with parity because they are convinced the French want to take over the company, just as the French are convinced the Germans want to take it over," said a person involved in the negotiations, who spoke on condition of anonymity.


The age when Germany was willing to sign the cheques but let France take the lead in Europe - whether to atone for World War Two or to ease the way for German unification - is over.


EADS is a paradigm for wider difficulties in relations, both because of the mutual suspicion and because of Berlin's determination to assert its increased power in a venture in which the French previously had the upper hand.


Hollande argues that each step towards closer integration in the euro zone should be preceded by an increase in "solidarity" - code for Germany doing more to support weaker southern states.


In contrast, Merkel insists there must be greater central control of national budgetary and economic policies to ensure they respect EU rules before any sharing of liabilities.


The Frenchman advocates common euro zone bonds to help pay off those countries' accumulated debts. He also wants joint deposit insurance in which German depositors and taxpayers would underwrite shaky banks in other euro zone states.


Both ideas are anathema in Germany, at least this side of the election and probably for much longer.


Irked by Hollande's perceived attempts to isolate her, Merkel has reached out to other partners to strengthen her hand in European negotiations.


In an essay entitled "After Merkozy, how France and Germany can make Europe work" (*), Ulrike Guerot and Thomas Klau of the European Council on Foreign Relations recount how Berlin lines up support from the Dutch and Finns, fellow north European AAA-rated nations, before dealing with the French.


"We call the French only once we have established a common position among our group of like-minded countries," they quoted a German official involved in financial negotiations as saying.


"And we know that once we start speaking with the French, then the trouble starts."


* After Merkokzy, how France and Germany can make Europe work, policy brief, ECFR.


http://ecfr.eu/page/-/ECFR56_FRANCE_GERMANY_BRIEF_AW.pdf


(Additional reporting by Tim Hepher; editing by James Jukwey)



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N. Korea extends rocket launch window






SEOUL: North Korea on Monday extended the window for its planned rocket launch by one week, in order to deal with a "technical deficiency" with the first stage of the carrier.

The original December 10-22 window was extended to December 29, the Korean Committee of Space Technology said in a statement carried by the official Korean Central News Agency.

The statement stressed that scientists and technicians were still "pushing forward" with preparations for the mission, which has been widely condemned by the international community.

"They, however, found technical deficiency in the first-stage control engine module of the rocket... and decided to extend the launch period," it said.

North Korea says the rocket launch is a peaceful mission aimed at putting a satellite in orbit.

The United States and its allies view it as a disguised ballistic missile test banned under UN resolutions prompted by the North's nuclear tests in 2006 and 2009.

- AFP/ck



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Storm in Rajya Sabha over Wal-Mart lobbying disclosure; BJP seeks probe

NEW DELHI: There was uproar in the Rajya Sabha on Monday over the reported disclosure that Wal-Mart spent Rs 125 crore on lobbying to enter the Indian market.

Raising the issue in the Upper House, the BJP members demanded a detailed probe into the disclosure.

BJP leader Ravi Shankar Prasad targeted the government and said the revelation had raised questions over the credibility of the decision to allow FDI in multi-brand retail.

The opposition maintained that lobbying was illegal in the country and the government should probe who got the money.

The decision to allow multi-brand retail in FDI should be put on hold and the government should first identify the beneficiaries of Wal-MArt lobbying, the Ravi Shankar Prasad said.

With the BJP members demanding immediate reply from the government, the House was adjourned for ten minutes.

When the House reconvened, the opposition members continued with their protests forcing the Chair to adjourn the House till 2pm.

The BJP members were reacting to a report that global retail giant Wal-Mart — waiting for years to open its supermarkets in India — had been lobbying with the US lawmakers since 2008 to facilitate its entry into the highly lucrative Indian market.

According to lobbying disclosure reports filed by Wal-Mart with the US Senate, the company spent close to $25 million (about Rs 125 crore) since 2008 on its various lobbying activities, including on the issues related to "enhanced market access for investment in India".

In the last quarter ended September 30, 2012 itself, the company spent $1.65 million (about Rs 10 crore) on various lobbying issues, which included "discussions related to FDI in India".

During the quarter, Wal-Mart lobbied for its case with the US Senate, the US House of Representatives, the US Trade Representative (USTR) and the US Department of State, according to its latest quarterly disclosure report. The companies are allowed to lobby for their cases in various departments and agencies in the US, but they are required to file their lobbying disclosure reports every quarter with the US Senate.

So far in 2012, Wal-Mart has spent more than $3 million or about Rs 18 crore on its various lobbying activities, including those related to India. As per Wal-Mart's lobbying disclosure reports, the company has continuously lobbied for its India entry since 2008, except for a few quarters in 2009.

(With inputs from agencies)

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Smokers celebrate as Wash. legalizes marijuana


SEATTLE (AP) — The crowds of happy people lighting joints under Seattle's Space Needle early Thursday morning with nary a police officer in sight bespoke the new reality: Marijuana is legal under Washington state law.


Hundreds gathered at Seattle Center for a New Year's Eve-style countdown to 12 a.m., when the legalization measure passed by voters last month took effect. When the clock struck, they cheered and sparked up in unison.


A few dozen people gathered on a sidewalk outside the north Seattle headquarters of the annual Hempfest celebration and did the same, offering joints to reporters and blowing smoke into television news cameras.


"I feel like a kid in a candy store!" shouted Hempfest volunteer Darby Hageman. "It's all becoming real now!"


Washington and Colorado became the first states to vote to decriminalize and regulate the possession of an ounce or less of marijuana by adults over 21. Both measures call for setting up state licensing schemes for pot growers, processors and retail stores. Colorado's law is set to take effect by Jan. 5.


Technically, Washington's new marijuana law still forbids smoking pot in public, which remains punishable by a fine, like drinking in public. But pot fans wanted a party, and Seattle police weren't about to write them any tickets.


In another sweeping change for Washington, Gov. Chris Gregoire on Wednesday signed into law a measure that legalizes same-sex marriage. The state joins several others that allow gay and lesbian couples to wed.


The mood was festive in Seattle as dozens of gay and lesbian couples got in line to pick up marriage licenses at the King County auditor's office early Thursday.


King County and Thurston County announced they would open their auditors' offices shortly after midnight Wednesday to accommodate those who wanted to be among the first to get their licenses.


Kelly Middleton and her partner Amanda Dollente got in line at 4 p.m. Wednesday.


Hours later, as the line grew, volunteers distributed roses and a group of men and women serenaded the waiting line to the tune of "Chapel of Love."


Because the state has a three-day waiting period, the earliest that weddings can take place is Sunday.


In dealing with marijuana, the Seattle Police Department told its 1,300 officers on Wednesday, just before legalization took hold, that until further notice they shall not issue citations for public marijuana use.


Officers will be advising people not to smoke in public, police spokesman Jonah Spangenthal-Lee wrote on the SPD Blotter. "The police department believes that, under state law, you may responsibly get baked, order some pizzas and enjoy a 'Lord of the Rings' marathon in the privacy of your own home, if you want to."


He offered a catchy new directive referring to the film "The Big Lebowski," popular with many marijuana fans: "The Dude abides, and says 'take it inside!'"


"This is a big day because all our lives we've been living under the iron curtain of prohibition," said Hempfest director Vivian McPeak. "The whole world sees that prohibition just took a body blow."


Washington's new law decriminalizes possession of up to an ounce for those over 21, but for now selling marijuana remains illegal. I-502 gives the state a year to come up with a system of state-licensed growers, processors and retail stores, with the marijuana taxed 25 percent at each stage. Analysts have estimated that a legal pot market could bring Washington hundreds of millions of dollars a year in new tax revenue for schools, health care and basic government functions.


But marijuana remains illegal under federal law. That means federal agents can still arrest people for it, and it's banned from federal properties, including military bases and national parks.


The Justice Department has not said whether it will sue to try to block the regulatory schemes in Washington and Colorado from taking effect.


"The department's responsibility to enforce the Controlled Substances Act remains unchanged," said a statement issued Wednesday by the Seattle U.S. attorney's office. "Neither states nor the executive branch can nullify a statute passed by Congress."


The legal question is whether the establishment of a regulated marijuana market would "frustrate the purpose" of the federal pot prohibition, and many constitutional law scholars say it very likely would.


That leaves the political question of whether the administration wants to try to block the regulatory system, even though it would remain legal to possess up to an ounce of marijuana.


Alison Holcomb is the drug policy director of the American Civil Liberties Union of Washington and served as the campaign manager for New Approach Washington, which led the legalization drive. She said the voters clearly showed they're done with marijuana prohibition.


"New Approach Washington sponsors and the ACLU look forward to working with state and federal officials and to ensure the law is fully and fairly implemented," she said.


___


Johnson can be reached at https://twitter.com/GeneAPseattle


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Gay Marriage: Will Justices Follow Popular Opinion?













The Supreme Court's announcement that it would hear two cases challenging laws prohibiting same-sex marriage has reinvigorated one of the most hotly contentious social debates in American history, a debate that has been fueled by a dramatic change in attitudes.


With some states taking significant steps towards legalizing gay marriage, the hearings come at a critical moment.


This week in Washington State, hundreds of same-sex couples lined up to collect marriage licenses after Gov. Christine Gregoire announced the passing of a voter-approved law legalizing gay marriage.


"For the past 20 years we've been saying just one more step. Just one more fight. Just one more law. But now we can stop saying 'Just one more.' This is it. We are here. We did it," Gregoire told a group of Referendum 74 supporters during the law's certification.


Washington is just the most recent of several states to pass legislation legalizing same-sex marriage, signifying a significant departure from previous thinking on the controversial subject.


READ: Court to Take Up Same-Sex Marriage


A study by the Pew Research Center on changing attitudes on gay marriage showed that in 2001 57 percent of Americans opposed same-sex marriage, while 35 percent of Americans supported it.


The same poll shows that today opinions have greatly shifted to reflect slightly more support for same-sex marriage than opposition -- with 48 percent of Americans in favor and 43 percent opposed.


In fact, just two years ago, 48 percent of Americans opposed same-sex marriage while only 42 percent supported it -- indicating that opinions have changed dramatically in the last couple of years alone.






David Paul Morris/Getty Images











Supreme Court Set to Tackle Same-Sex Marriage Watch Video









Gay Marriage: Supreme Court to Examine Marriage Equality Watch Video









Marijuana, Gay Marriage Win in 2012 Election Results Watch Video





Check Out Same-Sex Marriage Status in the U.S. State By State


It's hard to imagine that only 16 years ago, the fervent gay marriage debate led to the conception of the Defense of Marriage Act, which defines marriage as a union solely held between a man and a woman.


While debating the Defense of Marriage Act in September 1996, former Sen. Robert Byrd said: "If same-sex marriage is accepted, then the announcement will be official: America will have said that children do not need a mother and a father. Two mothers or two fathers will be OK. It'll be just as good. This would be a catastrophe."


Even a few short years ago a newly-elected President Obama did not support the legalization of gay marriage. It wasn't until earlier this year, at the end of hiss first term and with the impending election in sight, that the president told ABC's Robin Roberts the he'd "been going through an evolution on this issue."


Obama went on to attribute his shift in stance to the influence of his daughters.


"You know, Malia and Sasha, they've got friends whose parents are same-sex couples. It wouldn't dawn on them that somehow their friends' parents would be treated differently," he said. "That's the kind of thing that prompts -- a change in perspective."


Obama isn't the only one to experience an evolution in thinking on the matter of gay marriage. Attitudes towards same-sex marriage have shifted dramatically over the past decade across the board, particularly in the past few years.


Gone are the days when a majority of people opposed same-sex marriage; the days when gay politicians and supporters of same-sex marriage could not get elected.


Get more pure politics at ABCNews.com/Politics and a lighter take on the news at OTUSNews.com


Today, nine states and the District of Columbia allow same-sex unions -- a number likely considered inconceivable just a few short years ago. And yet, the same-sex marriage debate still begs for the answering of a question: Will this newfound public opinion, largely driven by young people, women and Democrats, have an effect on the Supreme Court's ultimate decision on the matter?


"I think (gay marriage is) just not a big deal for a lot of young people," Elizabeth Wydra of the Constitutional Accountability Center says. "The justices are human beings so they're not completely immune to public opinion. ... I think the real question for them is going to be do they want to be on the wrong side of history?"



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Field Hockey: Pakistan beat India for bronze






MELBOURNE: Pakistan won their first Champions Trophy medal since 2004, beating India 3-2 in the bronze medal play-off, depriving their arch-rivals of their first medal in more than 30 years.

Pakistani champion Shakeel Abbasi said the bronze was as good as winning gold.

"It was a very important match for us because for the past eight years we haven't won a medal at the Champions Trophy," Abbasi said.

"So for us this is a gold medal because after such a long time between winning medals, but also winning against India, for me and my team and for Pakistan this is a gold medal."

Pakistan beat India by the same score in the bronze medal showdown at Lahore eight years ago.

India began the stronger Sunday, drawing a penalty corner in the opening minutes as the ball came off the foot of a Pakistani defender.

The goal was converted by VR Raghunath and India had all the momentum.

However, Pakistan eventually worked their way back into the game, drawing level with a field goal from Muhammad Rizwan Senior on 21 minutes.

Pakistan continued to control the play after half-time, scoring twice more through Shafqat Rasool and Muhammad Ateeq to set up a commanding lead.

India continued to fight until the end, scoring a penalty corner goal through Rupinder Pal Singh as the final siren sounded.

Indian midfielder Yuvraj Walmiki said despite losing, his team would take a lot away from the tournament.

"Coming out from the London Olympics we finished 12th and now at the Champions Trophy, after the Olympics and World Cup, it is one of the top tournaments so finishing fourth is a good achievement," Walmiki said.

"But we are sad that unfortunately we couldn't get bronze."

Pakistan also had wins over Germany (2-1) and Belgium (2-0) in the tournament, while India defeated England (3-1), New Zealand (4-2) and Belgium (1-0).

- AFP/ir



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India misguided, paranoid over China: Guha

Shreya Roy Chowdhury, TNN Dec 8, 2012, 06.12AM IST

MUMBAI: A good half-hour into the discussion on 'India, China and the World', historian Ramachandra Guha issued a disclaimer—all the three members on the panel had been to China only once. "We should learn their language, promote quality research, and have a panel on China driven by Chinese scholars," he said. And that was the general tenor of the debate—that the Indian attitude to China was influenced by a mix of ignorance, cautious optimism about partnerships and a whole lot of misguided paranoia. "Don't demonise the Chinese, please," Guha finally said in response to a question.

"China has existed in our imaginations," observed Sunil Khilnani, professor of politics and author of The Idea Of India. "There's been very little sustained engagement with the reality of China and very little of our own produced knowledge about China." It was after the events of 1962 ('war' in the popular imagination, 'skirmish' to the scholars participating in the discussion), explained Khilnani, that a miffed India "withdrew". It's the 50th anniversary of that exchange this year, and "what we haven't been able to do is learn from the defeat", observed Khilnani. Both could have benefited from greater engagement. "China has had a very clear focus on primary education and achieved high levels of literacy before its economic rise. It has also addressed the issue of land reform," said Khilnani. Guha added that China could learn from the "religious, cultural and linguistic pluralism" in India.

But China and India weren't always so out of sync with each other. Srinath Raghavan, a scholar of military history, got both Guha and Khilnani to talk about pre-1962 relations between the two when the picture was rosier. Tagore was interested in China and so was Gandhi. Both were very large countries with large populations and shared what Guha calls a "lack of cultural inferiority". "They were both," he continued, "also heavily dependent on peasant communities." Nehru was appreciative of China's will to modernize and industrialize and its adoption of technology to achieve those ends. In turn, Chinese politicians argued for Indian independence.

Things soured more, feel both Khilnani and Guha, after the Dalai Lama fled to India in 1959. "He was welcomed here as a spiritual leader but the intensification of the conflict dates to the Dalai Lama's flight," said Guha. Both Guha and Khilnani argued that Nehru's decision to not react aggressively to China's occupation of Tibet was, in the long run, the right one and prevented further "militarization" of the region. An audience member wondered if that didn't make India "China's puppet". Guha disagreed. "If there's a Tibetan culture alive today," he said, "it's not because of Richard Gere. Don't believe in the hypocrisy of the Western countries. Will they give them land, employment, dignified refuge? The Tibetans is one of the few cases in which our record is honorable."

But the difference in levels of development and the lopsided trade relations between the two countries have only fuelled the suspicions many Indians seem to harbour about China. People were worried, said Guha, even about cricket balls made in China. Audience questions reflected those worries. A member asked about China's "strategy to conquer the world" and its likely impact on India. Guha cautioned against stereotypes; Khilnani explained, "History is littered with the debris of states that have tried to dominate the world. What we're doing may be more long-lasting."

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